We've come full circle! Back to the start ._.
Bumblebee Pairing: All The Reasons Why It Makes Sense
#33562504 - 2 months ago
This comment is for the sake of the other Bumblebee shippers in this discussion, and to encourage everyone to say what's on their mind. But I speak for myself alone when I say the following:
I do not try to convince others not to ship who they ship. All I am doing is explaining my perspective. I admit that sometimes I get fired up, and sometimes I lack tact. And I'm sorry about that. I want to be friendly and I want to be reasonable, but I especially want to be logical and use common sense. Further, I will even say that in his most recent comment, Alan (I'm going to assume he's gone, as he said he was done with this) did bring up a good point or two:
The scene where Blake tells Sun about her past -- it's completely true that Blake never says why she told Sun anything. I came to a conclusion that was based on facts we know about Blake and Sun's respective characters, but that does not make my conclusion also a fact. However, Alan is choosing to disregard the facts about Sun and Blake's characters (he did not argue these points, so I assume he agrees with my description of their characters/personalities), and simply points out that Blake never explains her reasons. Therefore, nothing can be said about the scene. It means nothing.
And the statement I made -- "Blake is not interested in [Sun] because of a major, base conflict between their two characters" -- is indeed partly opinion. We don't know if Blake is interested in Sun or not. I simply concluded she wasn't based on her reactions to Sun in Volume 1 and the facts about her character versus Sun's. But, again, my conclusion is not a fact. The thing that is a fact, though, is the base conflict between their two characters.
Speaking of which. Alan did not argue that point. He did say this, though: "People try and nitpick every possible scene to prove there point when in reality half of it isn't nearly important as the person makes it out to be." Now that is an opinion. I stated a fact -- "There is a conflict of interest between what Blake wants and what Sun does" -- but the importance people accord to that fact is purely choice, meaning opinion. Alan chooses to dismiss it because he thinks it doesn't matter (at least, that's what he said). I choose not to dismiss it because I think it matters very much. Nuance.
I'm not saying Alan is wrong for dismissing that fact. I'm simply explaining why I, personally, think it can't be ignored. He doesn't have to agree with me, and I don't have to agree with him. But I do respect his choice. Everyone deserves respect.
And while we are on the topic of respect... I'll admit that he might not be wrong about something else. But let's talk about it. He says that Sun blatantly disrespecting Blake by stealing food is an opinion. Maybe it's a cultural thing, or it's about the set of values we grew up with that are different, but I'll put it this way:
Let's say Sun was doing drugs next to Blake instead. First, what he's doing is illegal. Second, let's say Blake just finished telling Sun a few hours ago that she quit doing drugs a while back, that she regrets it, and now highly disapproves of them. Is it respectful for Sun to get high in Blake's presence and casually offer if she wants to get high, too?
That example was a little extreme, but it illustrates the same principle. The White Fang was literally about to steal those Schnee Dust Company crates down below -- and they did manage to get away with one or two of them -- and they had been robbing Dust shops recently, too. Blake doesn't like it. We know she doesn't. It's a fact. And Sun, who knows it, too, commits theft anyway for no reason and asks if she wants some of what he stole.
If we can't all agree that Sun's actions in that scene were disrespectful to Blake, or at least showed that he didn't care about her opinion, then some of us grew up differently or have a different culture. I don't know. It would seem to me that the general consensus would be that Sun's actions were rude, or at least uncaring. But, again, I think it comes down to how much importance we accord to his actions. I think they can't be ignored, especially since they are cumulative. Maybe Black Sun shippers think they don't matter.
Whatever the case is, this brings me to the other point Alan brought up. He thinks Sun never mentioned the White Fang stealing as a bad thing, and therefore asks how that makes Sun a hypocrite. Well, Alan is right that Sun never said that. But Sun implied it, and he sure as heck better think it because the White Fang committed robberies (theft), and if he disapproves with the White Fang (as we all agree Sun meant by his opinion of them), then he disapproves with what the White Fang does, too -- stealing included. Hence, Sun is a hypocrite because he says he disagrees with the White Fang, necessarily meaning he disagrees with what they do, and yet he does one of the things they do, too. Dictionary definition of a hypocrite.
Alan also says that Sun's opinion about the White Fang -- "[...] Bunch of freaks, if you ask me" -- did not inadvertently insult Blake. But Blake was once a member of that organization. Sun accidentally called Blake a freak, whether any of us like it or not. That's a fact. Further, Alan's question -- "Should [Sun] use nicer words to describe a terrorist organization to a girl he just met?" -- is opinion-based. Personally, I really feel Sun could use some tact and be more respectful in general. Alan feels like Sun couldn't have described the White Fang any other way, so there shouldn't be a problem. These are our opinions, and we can't make arguments out of them. The only thing that matters is the fact that Sun made an honest mistake by accidentally insulting Blake because he didn't know the truth until after he indirectly called her a freak. That's all.
And some of Sun's actions are the dictionary definition of creepy (read: strange). I explained how that was a fact. Because RT gives no valid reason for Sun to be at Beacon so early, then it is strange for Sun to have not only been there but also been outside at the same place and time that Blake was. Dictionary definition of creepy.
Are we seeing a pattern yet? Sun is doing all these illegal, inexplicable and thoughtless things, and this particular Black Sun shipper is shrugging them off one at a time. At least, that's what I'm noticing.
The other thing I'm noticing is that I'm doing the opposite. I'm not shrugging off all of Sun's illegal, inexplicable and thoughtless actions. Why? Because they accumulate and paint a nasty picture of Sun's character as a whole, and I won't accept Black Sun because of it. But that is my own perspective, a perspective that I have explained and backed up in detail for Volume 1, and if some people don't agree with it, then that's fine. I'm not asking people to agree. I just want the facts to be known.
Lastly, and this is for Alan (in case he did stick around), I just want to point out that I wasn't making an argument out of that "entitlement" comment. In fact, I literally said right after, "Or [Sun]’s just being a good friend/person. No arguments can be made from this." So, you seemed excessively defensive about that, and I don't understand why you felt the need to also bring Yang into the conversation to put Bumblebee down. I never mentioned Yang or Bumblebee in any of my points in that last comment except at the beginning. But you're still right -- Yang yelling "Get away from her!" could be interpreted as entitlement to Blake, or Yang could also have been being a good friend/person like Sun was in Volume 1. Whatever the case, that's all opinion and can't be used as an argument, both for Sun and for Yang.
Anyway, now it's your guys' turn! What do you think about all this? All thoughts are welcome! ^-^
#33567426 - 2 months ago
Just watch this, my bees. I think this video perfectly describes everything, even if it's only a minute long. I see so many people argue that Blake and Yang are just really good friends, which is true, but most people don't see that that can develop into a relationship beyond platonic. To me, couples work if they trust each other and have that mutual understanding of one another. In other words, romantic partners have to have that certain level of friendship at the very least. A partner should be your "best friend but more." I see that in Bumbleby. They were best friends (now with some angst and separation because of Volume 3), but once they reestablish that relationship they had, they can become a couple if they both carry romantic feelings for one another.
So shipping wise, I don't see anything against BB or BS. Both are valid, but for me, I think Bumbleby works the best. I see more connection between the two girls, as you all have pointed out in your previous statements in this thread. Besides, I think Yang understands Blake a bit more than Sun; she never has to have Blake explain why she does some things. Yang knows when to give Blake space, and she knows when Blake needs her. I think it really helps in their relationship. Even if the both of them are pretty different from each other, they still know how one another works. I don't think Sun has gotten quite the hang of how Blake really thinks and works, so he has trouble with her, which is why I don't quite like the pairing of both of them.
But anyway, I love this thread! The discussion here is great (other than the ship wars... can we please just stop with that). Don't mind me while I lurk some more...
#33569154 - 2 months ago
A well written and timed bumbleby is all good with me. I calmly hope the fandom can be patient with it. It seldom helps that we don't really have any confirmation who the lgbt characters are yet. I pray Miles and Kerry have gotten over their fear of making them not seem forced and can comfortably add those aspects to the characters for vol 5.
#33569202 - 2 months ago
Debateable. I've heard Nickelodeon didn't want a relationship like that on screen.
Gotta say i lost a lot of respect for that network upon hearing that. IF it's true that is. Which i mean, Why was that final moment allowed to air if Nick was against it?
RexFrost The King of Cool
#33571148 - 2 months ago
Companies like Viacom need to get with the times. It's a brave new world we're living in, one where folks from the LGBT & their lifestyles aren't so frowned upon anymore. Instead of being so uptight about it, they should just chill & allow LGBTs to be represented in their shows. They're respectable people, too.
#33571291 - 2 months ago
Okay so I got into the RWBY fandom barely a fortnight ago and now it's taking over my life which I am perfectly fine with. For supporting Bumbleby, would a valid reason be that there are some deeper meanings to it? By the way I haven't watched all of the show so some stuff may be incorrect, I'm not sure....
What I mean is, it's a problem that the humans and faunus have clashed for centuries which led to the White Fang and it's corruption. Even though they are both intelligent and have complex mental capabilities, they are still at odds with each other. So would a relationship between a human and faunus be like a beacon (eh heh) of light and hope amongst the darkness and conflict between the White Fang and humanity?
Not to bash ships, but say for example Blake got with Sun. They're both faunus, so wouldn't this technically just reinforce the divisions between the faunus and humans? Humans can only date humans, faunus can only date faunus, kind of thing.
But if Blake and Yang got together, it'd show that humans and faunus can still have trust in each other, even with the discrimination of the faunus that exists.
Taking it to real life, it can teach people that it doesn't matter if society doesn't like their views, they can still date and be friends with whoever they want, despite the conflicts that exist in our world right now.
Does this make sense? Or am I being too deep? I tend to do that when I'm tired.
#33571445 - 2 months ago
Nope not at all. It makes perfect sense.
It's part of the reason why I believe they will be canon. Human and Faunus divide is something very big in remnant and it wouldn't make sense to end the show with that unresolved? So we'll see them come together and what better way to strengthen the divide with a human and Faunus relationship. Another reason why it'd be Yang is because it'd be 2 females together, which is a strong metaphor for real life if you think about it:
Remnant dealing with discrimination against faunus
Real life discrimination against lgbt
It parallels so well you can't call it co-incidence.
Plus this ship has the yin-yang aspect, and lots and LOTS of fan support.
It ticks so many boxes all at once.
#33571463 - 2 months ago
In reply to absolutefandomtrash Well Blake stated she already loves her team who are all humans, I would say that's the opposite of reinforcing the division. Having a main Faunus character date another Faunus character isn't reinforcing that they are still divided especially when she stated she loved humans. Besides there are still other male and female faunus that can date humans. As of right now there is still velvet who is shipped with coco a lot, Nyan Cat and maybe fox, I'm not it sure if he is a Faunus.
#33573071 - 2 months ago
with Bumblebee having so much popularity in the fandom, Rooster Teeth kind of has to either make it happen or do something about Sun to make Black Sun more acceptable for a larger audience.
I don't think Rooster Teeth is obliged to alter their plots to suit fan tastes. Indeed, I think doing so would be a serious mistake. Creators should remain true to their creative vision. It's the only way to do good storytelling.
However... I will concede that Sun is, currently, a bit of a problem character. For someone who has so much air time these days, he's a woefully undeveloped character. And, although he obviously has feelings for her, the reverse cannot be claimed. Indeed, Blake wavers between indifference and frustration regarding Sun.
If RT want Black Sun to be a real thing in RWBY, I think they would be advised, from a storytelling point of view, to have Sun mature a lot (or at least introduce some more complicated aspects of his personality). At present, Blake is a very sad, very confused, very complex girl. And Sun just doesn't have the experiences and emotional depth to understand her.
Of course, the thing with shallow characters is that they can change. Character development (or character arc) is always possible. And RWBY has a long way to go.
But I'd still lay bets on either Bumblebee becoming a thing or, more likely, neither Blake nor Yang developing any kind of romantic relationship with anyone (at least, during the course of the series).